Not in Rivvy!
Nov 7th, 2008 by David
From Gale Blackburn:
Just to let you know that I’ve had no response to my letter to Chorley Borough Council arguing the case over how the Go Ape development could go ahead, given the shoddy nature of the ecology report! Well, I have had replies, but no one has addressed the queries I raised - they are standard answers which I think anyone who has written to the council will have received also.
So no answer to the questions that the trees were not thoroughly enough examined given their capacity to support wildlife, neither was research enough done to find out what wildlife exists, that flowers and birds of note exist in the development area, that the pressure of increased use on the area would be far greater than the report suggests. I could go on and on…
But I won’t, because I think the whole thing hinges on the fact that they have broken the covenant of the 1902 Act.
I love the idea of the high wires, but NOT IN RIVVY!! They could not have chosen a worse place. And how can a new car park be in any way justified? To encourage more cars to use the area and ruin what people come to see is not traffic management! At the moment the chaos that is Rivvy at weekends works out its own solution - people soon learn that they either can’t park there or they come earlier! Its all part of Rivvy’s enduring charm…..
If you want to make your views known you can add a comment to any article, use the forum, or use the ‘Contact’ page, you can even email us at mail@leverpark.co.uk.
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Hi..Gale. Don’t be surprised at anything you receive from Chorley, you want to read some of the rubbish i have received.
These are supposed to be professional people, any-other organisation would despatch them to the job centre.
Mr Dootson - hello again. If you are not happy with the replies you have received from Chorley Council following our recent meeting please let me know directly. I have tried to explain that we have followed national planning law to the letter in handling this application. Ultimately The Ombudsman will decide. Rather than making continued personal attacks on my staff I have offered a way forward by arranging a meeting with Go Ape to work together to find a way forward but you declined this.
Donna Hall
Chief Executive
Chorley Council
Hello Donna,
If you would like to address the points raised by Mr Dootson we’d be only too pleased to publish them here.
I would like to ask Donna hall “where Is Great House Green”?I am still trying to find It.Why was It on a planning application If there Is no such place?I think It was a deliberate attempt to mislead the public.
We shouldn’t meet with Go Ape until item number one on the agenda says ‘The removal of Go Ape from Lever Park - this week or next?’.
If we agree to meet with Go Ape now, it would be a tacit approval of their presence in the park. It would signal that we are willing to compromise on the presence of Go Ape in Park. We will not compromise on this key point.
We’re not being rude or difficult - just practical and realistic.
Being an intelligent chief exec for a large town council I suspect that Donna Hall understands all this, and perhaps her post is a little bit of mischief making?
The recent comments raised by Ms. Donna Hall were primarily aimed at Bob Dootson, Chairman of the Friends of Lever Park. I have to take issue with this commentary in which she claims that replies from the Chorley Borough Council were unsatisfactory after the recent meeting at Chorley Town Hall. The correspondence and comments from Chorley Borough Council have been unsatisfactory for some time, preceeding the meeting at Chorley Town Hall, and since.
Ms Hall asks for comments to be addressed to her directly, but why not use this website, as it offers everyone to have a say, in full, open and honest debate? Nowhere to hide, just the honest truth!!!!
The difficulty of “trying” to explain the CBC ’s Planning Department’s following of National and Borough Council guidelines is created by the total lack of adherance! In auditing terms the BC is non-compliant!
What pride Ms Hall must take in having Parliamentary Questions asked of her BC, of investing £1M in Icelandic Banking systems and a Council budget deficit of £372,000. Now targetted at bus pass users!
What a glowing record?????
I would welcome Go Ape to Rivington. It’s a bit far to go to the Lake District. It’s not as if they are building all over the park. Get a sense of proportion.
I would like to reply to John Smiths Comment,”Its not as If they are Building all over the park”If U.U. get their way with this appalling scheme they may well start building all over the park.After all they are going to need more car parking spaces If Go Ape goes ahead.Hence,green Fields being turned into car parks.Wildlife habitats will be destroyed,all for profit and greed.This Is just the beginning.not the end.As the saying goes,”foot in the door tactics”
I recently brought some dangerous practice by Go Ape to the attention of UU rangers. They had part cut down a tree adjacent to the footpath at the side of the lake but had left a large fractured branch swinging vertically over the footpath. i watched several families walk under this branch in full view of the Go Ape erection crew before taking photographs and asking to speak to the head of the crew. He was very standoffish and told me his crew hadnt left the tree in a dangerous state…I asked who it was and he brushed me off with his reply…”Go Ape”. It would seem that health and safety isnt the prime concern. Having spent a lot of time at Grizedale and seen how the Go Ape there blends in very well I was initially pleased that they were coming to Rivington; not least because I do volunteer mentoring with Bolton Lads and Girls Club and thought it would be a good adventure. I didnt know about all the controversy though and after seeing what I viewed as the above major health and safety breach I have thoroughly changed my mind.
Putting tarmac on bridleways/dirt roads would be a diabolical idea - as a keen outdoorswoman i would prefer to negotiate a dirt track and pot holes any day compared to the black stuff.
In reply to John Smiths comment…go ape coming the park is not the problem - the siting of Go Ape in such an unsuitable spot is. Why on earth didn’t UU put it across the water where their underused sailing club with masses of parking and other required facilities already are and avoid making a pleasant walk, rideor cycle in Rivington a thing of the past.
If Donna Hall reads this website, would she mind asking her relevant staff to send me answers on my letter about the ecology report - which took me hours to write!
Blanking, ignoring, or glossing over the issues are not clever PR tactics, they are simply rude.
When I arrived in Rivington a few weeks ago I was appalled to see that healthy trees and branches off trees had been chopped down. When I made enquiries at the information centre I was told “they were all dead trees” This was obviously not the case and it felt that the woman who was giving out false information to the public actually believed the lies she was telling people. It’s an eyesore, it’s a dreadful idea, Go Ape can be put up on spare land using posts, poles etc and be made to look like a jungle - great idea - but for them to say that this is an ecological idea has to be the biggest lie of all. How many trees go in order to make Go Ape. Please let me know of any future demos as I was away when the demo was held on November 12th. I am really happy to see that people are protesting though.
Isn’t this protest a bit like crying over spilt milk? The project is already in full swing. Why has there never been a public outcry over Bolton Council charging sports groups for the use of Green Lane Playing fields and Leverhulme Park when Lord Leverhulme also left them to the public for free recreational use? Despite his very generous gifts to the public, Lord Leverhulme was also a control freak who trod roughshod over the people of Rivington in the first place when he bought the estate and built over farmland tennanted by farmers. Don’t get me wrong, I love Rivington and Lever Park and appreciate the ‘gift’ which I often use. He was a forward thinking man and I think he would have approved of a ‘playground’ area, but adventure parks were unthought of in his time.
There seems to be a few issues within the whole debate on here:
1. That Go Ape are using the said site and parking problems.
(If you don’t like it walk elsewhere. Rivington is not just Lever Park and the Barns. Isn’t every nice day crammed with vehicles and ‘Sunday or Sunshine Only Walkers’. There are acres and acres of beautiful mooland to walk. A better site though, would have been near the bottom of Walker Fold Road where there is a large pine forest and some trees have already been felled)
2. That Go Ape will be charging people.
(A charge is acceptable as they need qualified instructors and it may also give local people jobs. The Tea Rooms at the Lower Barn charge for their services and that was under instruction from Lord Leverhulme himself. So what’s the difference? Wasn’t the Tea Rooms his ‘commercial’ idea to get money off the people who visited his park for free and he had also originally planned another tea rooms near the Old Castle)
3. It seems to me that people don’t want change.
(Look at all the changes Lord Leverhulme made)
The only people who really have any complaint about Go Ape is the people who actually live in Rivington who have already had to put up with the whole commercial idea of Lord Leverhulmes for over a hundred years.
Some good points there Karen - its good to have a dissenting voice on the site. Lets have a look at your points:
1) The Location of Go Ape. It sounds like you agree with us: that Go Ape is in the wrong position. We’re not against Go Ape (we’ve made that perfectly clear) but we are against locating it in this corner of Rivington. I know Walker Fold well, and I agree that it might well have made an ideal location (subject to proper public consulatation, of course).
2) Go Ape Charges. The tea room charges are affordable and reasonable. A family of four can affford to have a snack there. Go Ape would charge the same family of four nearly a hundred pounds for an afternoon’s entertainment. And the Go Ape course is slap bang in the middle of one of the most picturesque and quiet areas of the park, whereas Leverhulme built the tea rooms within an existing structure. Go Ape’s customer base will be from the affluent middle classes, and corporate - not the ordinary people of Bolton and Chorley to whome Leverhulme made his bequest.
3) We don’t want change. You are correct, we don’t want change. This corner of Lever Park is fine just as it was. But its not just Rivington residents who don’t want change, we number supporters from Southport, Lytham, Merseyside, all over south Lancashire, as well as Chorley, Blackburn and Bolton.
All in all, its difficult to second guess what Leverhulme would have wanted. But we do know that he wanted Leverpak to be enjoyed by all (rich and poor). So any changes need to be: a) wanted by the people and b) affordable by the people. The cost of Go Ape makes it an expensive, elitist activity and we know that only about 25% of people are actually in favour of Go Ape - so we can be confident he would not have approved.
Has Karen Holroyd given a thought to the people who are unable to walk through the acres and acres of woodland?Why should they be driven away,by greedy people who are only interested in profit.The noise which will be generated will make it very unpleasant to sit outside the lower barn enjoying a cup of tea on a summers day.As others have suggested the Go Ape could have been put at the other side of the reservour at the Anderton centre which is already used for outdoor pursuits.What about the horseriders who will be unable to use the bridleways because of the danger from the noise?They will be forced on to roads which are already dangerous,and will become more so if this ill thought out, half baked,scheme were to go ahead.Before someone goes on about jobs being created,Go Ape has stated it will create 8 jobs.It has also said it will create more tourism in the area.We don`t need Go Ape to do that.we already have that.It could do the opposite,people may well avoid Rivington altogether.
Re: Eileen
“The noise which will be generated will make it very unpleasant to sit outside the lower barn enjoying a cup of tea on a summers day”
Does this mean you actually prefer the sounds of cars, motorbikes and dogs barking as opposed to people laughing and having fun? Ok, there may be the odd shriek of terror! Yet it’s quite scary, from my personal experience when a string of motorbikes whiz past doing the national speed limit.
With regard to people with disabilities, I found Lever Park quite unsuitable when I was pushing my Mum in a wheelchair as the paths are too bumpy. Even the bottom tea rooms car park made an uncomfortable ride for Mum. The Top Barn is far more suitable for disabled users and it is an alternative place to go. Another alternative is the tea rooms on Sheephouse Lane. But if tarmac paths were put down then more wheelchair users could benefit.
I agree that horses and mountain bikers should still be allowed the freedom of the Park (even though I personally don’t like them). At the end of the day all people go to Lever Park to follow their own pleasure whatever that may be. Go Ape will be for some, another pleasure. My children want to go and I think the cost is quite reasonable compared to say, a wristband at Blackpool Pleasure Beach and I’m not wealthy.
The site isn’t the ideal spot, but I can’t see protesting and a march on Chorley make any of the officials change their mind. They wouldn’t want to be sued by Go Ape for breach of contract. I think the best course of action wouldn’t be to antagonise Go Ape, which would turn them against ‘the regulars’, but to work with them so the public could have an advocate on board.
The Top Barn Isn`t open everyday,as far as Go Ape not being noisy i suggest you look on Go Ape clips on forums.Its not just screaming and shouting,its noise from zip wires going backwards and forwards.Also there are benches near the proposed Go Ape site which were donated for people to sit and enjoy peace and quiet.Hardly the best place for activities like Go Ape.You agree its not the ideal site.All the more reason for not having it there. There are better alternatives.If there had been a consultation with the public this would have been discussed.The idea of a march is to tell people whats going on.
I think the issue is less with noise - we all know how noisy it is in Rivvy especially on a weekend - but the fact that 20 mature, broadleaved trees have been cut down, illegally, as opposed to the 3 which were agreed as part of the consent to the planning application. And that the trees involved as part of the development were given a cursory glance by the ‘ecology consultants’ over a period of two days, before these same consultants decided that they would not support wildlife - how, in two days, do you climb up more than 30 trees over 25 metres in height, examine them all for signs of bat roosts / other wildlife interest, and then state with confidence they are of low wildlife interest?
Okay, sometime trees must be cut down, but we are not replacing them as fast we are destroying, and our woodland habitats are being eroded, bit by bit. And this woodland habitat is one that many people know and love so its right that there is a huge protest. We all have a duty to stand by our trees!
In response to Karens letter, she may not like horses but riding is one of the only ways that less able bodied people can enjoy the countryside. It is also a safe way for lone females to get out and about, as many woman would not dare walk though Rivington or up on the moors on their own. The bridleways in Smithills even have wheelchair ramps so disabled riders can get on their horse, and as 3.5 million people now ride in Britain each week, bridleways will be springing up hopefully in more and more places. Chorley Council were involved in the development of the West Pennine Bridleway Strategy and as such it seems ridiculous that they have allowed “Go Ape” to be placed right by the main bridleway through Rivington, which is meant to keep riders and cyclists off the roads there.
This post is a reply to Karen Holroyd and John Smith. Do you not feel just a teeny weeny bit guilty, that the Go Ape Experience that you are supporting, has with Chorley Council and United Utilities blessing, destroyed the habitats of the wild life who live their 24 hours a day 365 days a year.
All of us who visit Rivington are uninvited by these wild creatures, but most of us respect their right to live in peace and not have their homes destroyed because people like yourself are not capable of making their own enjoyment.
I feel quite sad for you that you were never taught the country way of life, there is nothing nicer than listening to the sound of the crickets, the singing of the birds and at dusk watching the bats as they fly from tree to tree. Yes the trees that these the birds and bats live in, the trees that you would happily see destroyed so you can get your kicks.
Have you ever visited the Pleasure Beach at Blackpool, they have many made aminities that you can enjoy. You can even enjoy a ready made candy floss or a ready made toffee apple, ready made hotdogs. The list is endless of the ready made food you can eat as you take part in the ready made rides.
To the above two posts:
It’s clear you have not read previous posts. I would never try to stop riders and mountain bikers going up Lever Park as that is their own choice of pleasure. I am frightened of horses which makes them a bit unpredictable around me. I have no objections to them being ridden.
I was brought up respecting wildlife and exploring Rivington, Belmont, Anglezarke and spent much of my youth with my Uncle, who was a well respected local historian, learning about the ruins around these places and the people who lived there. My children have also been brought up in the same vein and my grandchildren love their nature walks. Only yesterday my daughter and I had a walk to the Hanging Stone at Belmont. Last Friday we were on the top of Winter Hill (the most peaceful place in Rivvy) and do you know, not one of these so-called Rivvy lovers were anywhere in sight. Is that because it was too cold and too quiet or there was no pot of tea available, as some on here seem to prefer the noisy Barn car park on a Sunday? The best time to catch sight of wildlife around the Barn is early dawn, and if you’re lucky you may see weasels playing like I’ve done. This is where my enjoyment comes from.
There are also 4 trees in Rivington dedicated to my family.
My whole point is that protesting will only antagonise and not stop proceedings. A friendly approach to Go Ape suggesting alternatives would perhaps be more useful. For example, maybe someone could negotiate with the Top Barn to open the tea rooms more often and suggest that certain paths are still left for riders and that sort of thing. Compromise is the only way forward.
To Karen - have you read the posts? The problem is not Go Ape, its the siting of it. How much of the wildlife you look forward to seeing do you think you will catch when part of Rivington is covered in tarmac and people in trees where the birds used to nest? You cannot seriously have no objection to the extra traffic and the park becoming pay and display? I personally prefer to ride my horse in Smithills which is much more user friendly than Rivington but that doesn’t mean I want to lose the right for others to ride there. My horse will become much more unpredictable over there when it has to negotiate extra traffic and motor bikes on the road that i will be forced to use, because as a responsible person i don’t want to seriously injure someone when it is frightened by someone flying over its head on the only bridleway that i can use to get to Healey Nab and the Lead Mines. I would rather hurt myself as I choose to ride than kill someone’s toddler that is out for a walk or a baby in a pram.
To Karen Holroyd
Its is clear you didn’t read my post properly, because nowhere in my post did I mention horse riders or mountain bikers. The whole point of my post was to talk about the habits of the wildlife, that has been destroyed by “Go Ape” with the blessing of Chorley Council and United Utilities.
I don’t believe for one minute you are interested in wild life, how can you be? When you appear to condone this monstrosity. As I said before we are uninvited guests as we traspass into the homes of these wild creatures, but most of us respect these creatures right to live a peaceful life because we were taught the country code by our parents and during our years at school.
If you visited Rivington Pike last Friday and there was no one there so what? What has your visit to the pike got to do with the destruction of trees and the unlawful construction of “Go Ape”? Obviously you only visit Rivington when the weather is nice, because if you went when the weather was bad, you would see plenty people in the area. Also most people visit the area at the weekends because they work or have other commitments during the week.
To return to the unlawful construction of “Go Ape” it is unlawful because the people who should have been consulted about this construction were not. If compromise is the only way forward, why did Chorley Council not tell “Go Ape” that they could only construct the assault course where the other outward bound courses are constructed in the area?
No doubt Mr Bob Dootson, who is a leading figure in the fight to get this construction stopped, will have already pointed that fact out to Chorley Council.
Opening the tea rooms at the top barn will not save the homes of the creatures that dwell in Rivington. Also most people who visit the area visit to enjoy the beauty of Rivington, not to just to sit and have a cup of tea. As I said in my previous post, some people like yourself need your enjoyment ready made, hence your support of “Go Ape” and as far as people like yourself are concerned, its tough if the habitats of wildlife is destroyed.
Will you think about these creatures as you and your family are whizzing about the trees whooping with joy? Will you think about people who could be hurt, because of where “Go Ape” is constructed? Will you heck, the only thing that will be on your minds is your next plan of action and that will be to have your precious cup of tea. Not in the lower barn, but at the cafe that “Go Ape”
Will it enter your head that trade will be taken away from the lower barn and jobs will be lost? Will it heck.
In the 3rd line from the bottom my post, I meant to say the cafe that “Go Ape” will provide.
This thread seem to be generating ‘more heat than light’ now, so I’m closing it to further comments. You are, of course, all welcome to continue the discussion elsewhere on the site.